20 Questions With Catherine Marks

Catherine Marks is an internationally renowned producer, mixer, and engineer. Her list of accolades spans the globe with her work winning awards in the UK, US, and Australian music industries. Her client list is impressive and encompasses many of music’s leading talents, including St.Vincent, boygenius, Manchester Orchestra, PJ Harvey, Alanis Morissette, Wolf Alice, and many others.

In our latest 20 Questions feature, we ask Catherine our burning questions about music technology, audio engineering, and her recording engineering and production philosophies. 

1. You’re a Producer, Mixer, and Engineer. How do you see these roles? Are they distinct and separate to you, or do they overlap?

It really depends on the project. I think they do tend to overlap these days. I do like to use an engineer and have them be in control of that area sometimes, but sonics are such a big part of the way I approach production that I’m invariably involved in that aspect anyway. I'm also mixing as I go too, during the recording process. So yes, I think all these roles do tend to overlap.

2. What came first for you, audio or music? 

I think my love of music came first. I knew that I wanted to work in music or be involved in music as a career, but had no idea what career opportunities existed. I didn't know anything about the recording industry. It wasn't until I recorded an album with a band that I was in, in Australia, where the engineer put reverb on one of the instruments and I said, “Oh, what is that sound that makes it sound like it's in a big room?” He said, “It's reverb.” I was like, "Oh my God, this is amazing. This thing called reverb.” It blew my mind. I was so fascinated immediately. I mean, I literally knew nothing.

I think there was just something that intrigued me, how sounds were created, and that's kind of where it started. Then, purely by luck, I met a producer called Flood. He was a producer and I didn't know what a producer was, but I was intrigued by what he did.

After finishing a Master's degree in architecture, I moved over from Australia to London and started making tea for him. So that's kind of how I got my start. I was so green, and I didn't really understand the recording industry, but I knew I loved, or was very interested in, the creation of sound. I loved music and was very into music from a very early age. I played the piano, but I was never going to be a performer. So this was a perfect way to be involved in music. I love it.

I got so nervous. I performed when I was growing up. I used to compete in competitions playing classical piano. I just remember wanting to throw up every time I'd get on stage. I ended up winning one just purely because I was trying not to be—I don't know, I was moving around a lot because I was so nervous and it turned out that they really loved the movement.

They thought it was passion, not nerves.

There’s probably a big overlap between the two. 

Yeah, probably.

3. You’ve worked on some incredible projects. Can you think of any familiar thread that runs between all of them? 

That's a really good question. It's hard for me to say sonically whether there is. I mean, there's always a little part of me that makes its way into the records I’m a part of, but I think the common thread is the artists that I worked with and the chemistry that we have. That is always why I pick a project—because I would love to spend time with the artists, no matter what the genre is. I want to work with artists who inspire me.

That's more a philosophical thread, but I don't know—maybe there's a sonic thread. I like things that are a little bit rough around the edges and very human. So I'm always very conscious to maintain that element, to maintain the personality of the artist that I work with, and make sure that that comes through as a unique sonic identifier to whatever project that I'm working on.  

4. What’s your go-to workflow when you sit down to mix? 

If I'm mixing someone else's project, it's like painting, and I move through the sessions very quickly. I throw plug-ins on and experiment in an instinctive way with balances, panning, and EQ, while always constantly referencing the rough mix.

Very quickly, I get an overall picture together. Then I usually send a work-in-progress mix to make sure I’m on the right track. Then I spend about a day and a half tweaking it, going back on it, all the things that I've done and going, “Oh my god, what, what? Why did I do that?” Then making changes that no one ever notices, and torturing myself.

However, when I mix my own projects, it’s a much more inching it forward process, because I'd probably be quite attached to certain decisions, and I'm more involved in the creation of it, so it's a little bit more sensitive, unless I've had a lot of time or distance from it. Where possible, I try and have that distance, so that I can react instinctively rather than still be emotionally attached to any part of the recording process. I do enjoy mixing the projects that I work on because the production kind of carries through as well. It's a fluid process, and then the production and mixing finish at the same time.

5. What’s your must-have microphone for most recording sessions? 

It’s an SM7. It is so easy and most studios have it. I do love a Neumann U67 and I want to get one of those, and I would travel around with that. Or a Telefunken 251. But I mean, an SM7 is such an amazing workhorse and I tend to run that through a Neve 1073 mic pre and it's just good on everything. Just swing it around and point to whatever you're recording.

6. Who's an artist you’d most like to work with next? 

There are a few artists I’m really intrigued by: Ethel Cain, Kacey Musgraves, and Amyl and the Sniffers. I would also really love to work with Coldplay. I don't know why, but I’d love to make a live album with them. Kind of Parachutes again, if they wanted to go back and make that kind of record. I’d love that challenge. I mean, honestly, you know, people ask me that all the time and the only reason I'm answering it's because I saw the question before.

It’s rare I ever think, "Oh, I'd love to work with that artist." It's more, I meet the artists that approach me and again, it's whether they inspire me through that initial chemistry. I mean, I would've loved to have worked with Bowie. That would've been awesome, but in the 70s. There are a lot of my favorite records where I think, "God, I would've loved to have worked on that." And albums like Spirit of Eden by Talk Talk. Sometimes I think I wish I’d been a part of that record.

To be honest, I’m more often thinking of other producers I’d love to work with. I love that kind of collaboration.

7. A little bit of time travel there. Well, what’s fascinating to you right now in music technology? 

It's so constantly evolving and I've now been in the industry for 20 years. I work in Pro Tools and just seeing the technology change over 20 years is incredible. Also having to adapt to technology as well. It interests me how I react to how much I hate change. So it sometimes takes me a long time to catch up. I mix in the box, but I still run everything through analog gear. It makes it time-consuming at the back end. I frustrate myself.

I'll tell you what I am actually really intrigued about; there's apparently a system that creates stems for you, and I haven't investigated it yet, but I've spoken to a few other mixers, and they're like, “You've gotta get on this. Wow.” That would only really work if I was mixing entirely in the box. Stems take me hours. I do them one instrument at a time in real time. As you can tell, the change is hard. 

Yes. Sometimes progress is necessary, but it's a big adjustment. 

Yeah, I mean it's interesting, the whole AI thing as well. I've had my head in the sand a bit about that, and there are a lot of people that I work with who are really up to date with everything that's going on. It'll be something that I'll need to explore. I have my process and I like my process and that’s where I'm comfortable. So when you're moving through project after project, you don't often have time to experiment with new technology. I love it when I have a bit of time off. I mean, the pandemic was great. There was a load of new plug-ins and stuff that I hadn't used before, which I was able to spend time on. I really explored these plug-ins that I've never used before and had fun with them, using them in the way that I would want to. That's not really technology, is it?

It’s the intersection of how we get to explore technology. There’s so much happening all the time. So having the time to play is a big part of creativity.

Yeah. That’s beautiful, that’s really beautifully put! Write that. 

I'm still running a computer from 2018 and I've just recently bought a Mac Studio, a current one, which will mean that I'll probably have to change my interfaces and update a lot of things. I'm aware of how plug-ins work on newer systems differently from my older system. So again, change is about to happen, and I'm gonna not like it for a bit, and then I'm gonna not care, and then that just will be just where I live.

8. Speaking of, tell us about your studio. What’s an essential piece of gear, and what do you love about the space? 

Oh, I love it. It was an old meeting room and it just happened to not have any right-angle walls. It's got beautiful natural light—I’m just pacing it around it now—and I've got loads of different keyboards, like a Wurli [Wurlitzer], a Fender Rhodes, a Roland Juno, a Mellotron, and lots of little Yamaha keyboards, a piano, and drums. You know, it looks like a studio that you can just plug something in and play. Everything feels really tactile.

My favorite bit of gear is probably my Neve 1073, because I use it so much. I love toys. I've got lots of pedals as well. I like to be able to twiddle knobs with my hands rather than with a mouse. So I do a lot of processing outside the box with pedals. So yeah, fun things. I've got a few Chase Bliss pedals, which I love to play with.

Any ones that come to mind? 

I've got one called Generation Loss II, which I still don't really understand how it works, but again, just twiddling knobs and seeing what comes out, excites me, because you never know. I like things that don't operate in a digital way; when they're not exact. That’s one of my favorites that I use, and a Gurus EchoSex valve delay. I think it’s modeled on a Binson Echorec? I love that little valve delay unit.

Other pedals I love to use: Audio Kitchen Flying Squirrel, Bondi Effects Sick As, Keeley Electronics Loomer—basically the sound of the 90s in one box.

9. Do you have a production philosophy, and does it differ from when you are mixing? 

Production philosophy: I like to feel, so the way that I produce is very reactive. I never know what kind of journey we're going to go on, but I usually sort of have a plan. I've heard the demos, I’ve/we've done pre-production, and I've watched them play. Imagery will start to form. I guess it's sort of hard to explain. I like to see the mix, see the production, and see the music, if that makes sense. So perhaps I think about things in a three-dimensional way. I guess my approach to production is the same as mixing, in that I'm trying to get a sense of an emotion that also has a visual attached, which is also in three dimensions.

When I close my eyes, where am I? Where is the guitar placed? Can I reach out and touch it? That sort of thing. Where are the drums sitting? Are they sitting behind the speakers or right in front, to the left, or to the right? I'm building a three-dimensional thing. How can I make that read through something that has no dimension, essentially?

So, yeah, it’s a constant science experiment.

10. Do you have any advice for aspiring engineers or producers? 

The best advice I was ever given was, “Always be yourself”. I know it seems obvious, but there were times early on in my career when I thought I should be emulating my mentors. But your brain and the way you interpret things are your point of difference. But also always be open to learning from others. Creativity is borne out of experience, not isolation.

11. What’s a piece of gear you wish you had, or hope to get soon? 

I want a Telefunken 251 or a vintage Neuman U67. I also want another piano. I have this beautiful, clunky piano, but the C-sharp string snapped and they said it would basically cost as much as a new piano to fix it. It's just too pingy, but other than that, it's such an old piano. It's got such beautiful character, so I should probably get another piano.

12. Do you have a favorite studio to visit, and why? 

Oh, I have so many favorite studios. I love Eastcote Studios, which is where I'm based, in the same building. That studio has such a rich history, it's such a wonderful space to work, and it sounds great. The community is wonderful. I love the natural light and everything always sounds really good in there.

I also have a real fondness for ICP in Belgium. It's in Brussels and it's this amazing old factory conversion. When you stay there, you stay in these apartments that seem so very old and European. You feel like you're in a Jason Bourne film. That's how I always feel when I'm there. The gear in the basement is amazing; they've got every single possible drum kit, keyboard, amp, and guitar. Every time I go there, I'm like a kid in a candy store like, "Oh, what can we use? Their collection of gear and instruments is just incredible and it's a really fun place to work as well. I love that old feeling,

I really love Real World in Bath, England—Peter Gabriel's studio—which is also incredible and beautiful. Two beautiful studios to work in, and the accommodation's lovely. They have this amazing chef who cooks delicious meals, which is a nice drawcard. I like to be fed, otherwise, I forget to eat when I'm working.

13. Was there ever a point when you questioned if music was the right thing for you? And if so, how did you know to keep going? 

That is a very good question. I think probably in the first three or four years, when I was assisting, and I was like, "Why have I not progressed?" I remember someone saying, “You've still got a long way to go.” So there was that point, which I think everyone goes through, when they're like, "How long do I have to put up with this shit?" and, "Will I progress?" I'm really grateful that I carried on.

I did have tunnel vision, and I knew where I wanted to get to, but when I got to that point, I was so grateful because I had the experience and understood how to deal with people, managers, and record labels. When I was under a lot of pressure, I was able to handle it. Whereas had I gone out on my own when I thought I was ready, I would never have been able to handle it. Reputation is such a massive thing in a relatively small industry of producers and engineers that, had I failed on the first hurdle, would I have recovered?

It wasn’t until I understood the studio dynamic that there was a point, probably around three years in, where I was just like, "Oh God, this is so hard and brutal;" the long hours, no social life, and the sacrifices. But deep down, I had this end goal in mind. I got some great advice from my peers and my mentors: "Just when you think that you're ready, you're not." The learning process was so important. I think, had I not persevered and accepted that, I wouldn't have been ready when I was in a position of responsibility.

14. How important do you think location is to the career of a producer or mixer these days? 

It depends. I think it doesn't really matter. I'm doing a project at the moment, which we recorded in Australia, and it's being mixed by a British mixer who switches between LA and New York, and I know that he mixes in the box, so he could literally be anywhere in the world and he's still doing a great job. So yeah, I don’t think location is as important as it used to be. I think the music industry in the UK can tend to be London-centric, but I think that's changing.

15. Do you have specific workflows that you tend to lean into when you mix, or is it different every time? 

I try and do something different every time, but invariably, there is a process and a workflow that ends up being the same. One of the first things that I do is run my mix through my summing mixer, which is the Thermionic Culture Fat Bustard, then through my Obsidian compressor, a Manley Massive Passive EQ, and then an Inward Connections Vac Rac EQ.

I tend to split the drums and percussion, bass and keys, guitars, and then vocals, and sometimes backing vocals out to separate stereo channels. Then I play with the EQ and the compression and how the Fat Bustard has this amazing knob called "Attitude." To me, it drives the lows and also pushes the low-mids, which often I think is where a lot of the character lives. I also like the way it's able to push the vocals forward without making them sit on top.

Then I mess around with the Obsidian compression; how pumpy do I want it? Or how transparent do I want it? That part of the process is the first fun thing I play around with, and then I mix into that. Now obviously, it’ll be project-dependent what I do within the mix. That tends to be my go-to workflow, even though I really need to start mixing in the box to make it easier down the other end, but as you know, I love analog. It does something. 

It’s interesting because some people really do mix from templates, so everybody’s a little bit different in how they approach it. It's interesting for readers at Vintage King to hear about different pieces of gear, why people like them, and what they’re doing with them. 

I wish I did have templates, but I don’t. I have heard of an amazing mixer in Australia who uses templates and his engineer said, “You just run any mix through it, and it always sounds great." I was like, “I want that template. That sounds good.” No, I like to do the hard work from scratch and just explore, never really knowing where it's going to end up, and just letting the sonics guide me.

16. As a producer, how do you approach pre-production? Or do you just dive in? 

Pre-production is such an important aspect of making a record for me, because it's not only the part where you get to know the artists' personalities, but also the way that they play. It’s a springboard of ideas for how I'm going to record it. I've talked about it before, but what the album will look like, just being in a rehearsal room, not thinking about microphones or the sonics, but just feeling their energy. It really starts to spark ideas, and also it's a way for them to break down the song aspects, whether it's the groove, or the way that the guitars are being strummed, or the vocal metering and how that relates to the drum groove. I break all those things down and then build it up again with tiny little tweaks that make things a bit tighter and a bit stronger.

But it also means that they're learning the parts, so that when we actually get into the studio, while it's an extension of pre-production, it becomes more about performance rather than learning the parts on the go. I try to make the experience from pre-production to recording as seamless as possible. It's all rehearsal until it's not, basically. We're always trying, we're always experimenting, but if you have the basics and we've really honed in on those in pre-production, it means there's more room for exploration and experimentation while we're in the studio.

17. What’s a typical day in the studio like for you? 

At the moment, I'm making little pieces of music, so I'm by myself at the moment, which is kind of nice. It always starts with the black coffee from the canteen in the building. I walk in, turn everything on, and assess where I'm at in the process. I do a lot of listening, especially when I'm by myself, and kind of analyze and tweak. It's a very rare situation that I'm by myself creating something, because normally I'm helping other people create things. So this is a really fun little experience for me.

I’m also having an album mixed at the moment, so I will usually listen to a mix as soon as it comes in, send notes if necessary, and have various phone calls and conversations. It’s been my kind of dream day, really. Thinking about music by myself. The day looks very different when there are artists involved. Today, particularly, I’ve been doing a lot of listening, a lot of tweaking, and a lot of manipulation of sounds in between phone calls and listening to mixes that I'm being sent.

18. What’s your monitoring setup like? 

I have a pair of ATC SCM25s. They’re the speakers that we've got a lot of in the building, so it's good to be able to work in other studios in the building. It helps to have a set of speakers that we all have, to see how it translates. Then I've got what I call my “baby” Genelecs—the 8010As— which I tend to use for vocal detail.

I also have these M-Audio DSM2s, which I hadn’t used for ages until recently. I got them years ago, like back in 2009, when I was working with Alan Moulder. We actually really loved them and I ended up mixing so many records on them. I knew them so well. Then, when I got the ATCs, I stopped using them.

Just out of curiosity, I went back to the M-Audios on a project I mixed recently, and I was like, “Wow, these are actually good speakers to mix on because you have to work really hard to get them exciting.” The ATCs are quite hyped, so sometimes when you take it out of the room, the mix can be maybe just a little bit flat. With the M-Audios, I'm able to hype it in the mix, so that when you take it away, it's exactly how you expect it to feel.

19. Do you have any upcoming projects that you’re excited about and can share with us?

I've just done this great record with an Australian band called Teen Jesus and the Jean Teasers. We spent five weeks in Australia making the record in a residential studio, working six-day weeks. I think this album's so exciting, I’m very excited about it.

20. What’s something that you’ve done to try to get a sound that was a bit outlandish or innovative that might surprise folks? 

Oh, on the record that I've just done, when we were recording the guitars, I sent one of the guitar amps to the Eventide H3000 Harmonizer. I often process the sounds that I'm recording in real time so that you can also hear and react to the interesting sounds they create. The effect that I'm sending it to has a different reaction from a plug-in. The guitarist was playing a part and they'd started at the top of the chorus, but I wanted a lead-in note, so before I got them to play it again, I pitched it down and then accidentally looped this chord.

I was like, "Oh my god, that's the outro!" It was an effects return from the H3000, and it kind of sounded like a siren, but also not. It was this, "Holy shit, this sounds cool as fuck" kind of moment, and everyone was in the room and I was just like, "That was a happy accident, but genius at the same time." We were all jumping up and down. I love those moments, using outboard effects or pedals and analog stuff. You never know what you're going to get from it, which is what I love.

I know you mentioned earlier about the love of unpredictable pedals. 

Yes, and this was an unpredictable moment of an effect. It just accidentally looped a moment, and you all get excited. Often you don't use it, but in this particular case, I was like, "This is cool. This is how that song is gonna end." It was such a great moment. 

Fantastic. I look forward to hearing that at some point. 

It's a song called “Balcony” by the band Teen Jesus and the Jean Teasers. It makes me jump up and dance, and that doesn’t happen very often.

If you’re interested in upgrading your studio with any of the gear mentioned in this interview, contact a Vintage King Audio Consultant via email or by phone at 866.644.0160.